Deviate With Rolf Potts

"I didn't go to Africa to "feel African," or become African. What I wanted to do was put myself in the shoes of the person I was traveling next to." --Eddy L. Harris In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eddy discuss why Eddy's Africa travel book Native Stranger was not always well-received by America's cultural gatekeepers in 1992 (3:30); what is was like for Eddy to travel as a Black American in Africa in the 1990s, and how his experiences there became a book (12:30); how Africa has changed, and is changing (24:00); observations of Native Stranger that Rolf quoted in The Vagabond's Way, such as how to deal with beggars on the road (30:00); and Eddy's experiences being a Black American in France, and his core motivation for travel (37:00). Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of several books, including Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Notable Links: Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) South of Haunted Dreams, by Eddy L. Harris (travel book) Malcolm

"Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they'll think of reasons why you shouldn't go there." --Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it's like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes Ari from The Vagabond's Way about why it's OK to get lost when you travel, and what it's like when you wander out of tourist zones in another country (22:30); and how naysayers can preempt your travel ambitions if you listen to them (46:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (travel writing class)

“At its best, travel is embraced not as a flashy backdrop for our lifestyle ambitions, but as an act that touches every aspect of our being.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads the introduction chapter from his latest book, The Vagabond's Way, which debuts on October 4th (and is available for preorder now from your favorite bookstore).

“I think sometimes as travel writers our most important job is to be a listener -- to listen to the stories that people are telling each other in a place.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about why home is such an important place in one's life, even when one travels to more far-flung places (3:00); why the vagabonding ethos begins with the willingness to give oneself permission to travel in life, and how Rolf's new book, The Vagabond's Way, furthers the vagabonding ethos in a daily-reading format (15:00); the difficulty of figuring out which place in the world is your "favorite," and how food becomes a part of one's iconic travel memories (32:00); and why it helps to be confident and "ride tall in the saddle" if you sometimes feel out of place as a traveler (41:00). Ernest White II (@ernestwhiteii) is a storyteller, explorer, producer, and host of the television travel series Fly Brother, now in its second season on PBS and Create TV. Check out his subscription-based membership

“One thing we like to say [in Antarctica] is that nothing on the continent can kill you, except for the entire continent.”  –Karen Pszonka In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Karen talk about how Karen first got a job in Antarctica (1:40); what weather is like during the Antarctic winter, the research being done at McMurdo, and a penguin named "Buddy" (8:00); what the landscape working conditions, and living conditions are like in Antartica (24:00); what community life is like among the people who live and work in Antarctica (42:15); and the best and worst aspects of working in Antarctica, and how one might go about applying for a job there (1:02:00). Karen Pszonka (@zonks) works as support staff for the United States Antarctic Program's science research at McMurdo Station. Notable Links: Ice Bound, by Dr. Jerri Nielsen (book) Terra Incognita: Travels in Antarctica, by Sara Wheeler (book) Doomsday Glacier (Antarctic glacier) Europa (moon of the planet Jupiter) IceCube (neutrino observatory at t

“I told him, 'You didn't have a long, lucrative NBA career, but that doesn't make you a failure. Yet if you let other people tell your story, that's how you're going to be depicted.”  –Dr. Kevin Harrison In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin talk about how Kevin started writing what he calls "smut novels," how he sold them at the grassroots level, and how people reacted to them (3:30); what it's like to represent lesser-known places like Wichita in urban fiction and other writing, and how Kevin came to co-write NBA player Korleone Young's book (20:00); and the way Kevin's music is another form of storytelling that draws on specific experiences and places (29:30). Dr. Kevin Harrison is a writer, musician, and assistant teaching professor at Wichita State University. He is the author of Cameron Banks: The Reality Show, and co-author of One and Done: The Korleone Young Story. Notable Links: Urban fiction (literary genre) Kaye-Monk-Morgan on Deviate Korleone Young (basketball player) Zane (erotic

“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don't know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo's "interfaith dialogue" initiatives at Deir Mar Musa  (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the Syrian government cracked down on dissent and protest in 2011 (29:00); and how Father Paolo's monastery fostered interfaith dialogue over debate, and what his legacy is in Syria (43:00). Shaun O'Neill is the author of A Church of Islam: The Syrian Calling of Father Paolo Dall'Oglio. Notable Links: The strangers we meet on the road (Deviate episode) Paolo Dall'Oglio (Italian priest and peace activist) Deir Mar Mu

“The noun part of "writer" seems to require outside validation, but the verb part of it -- "writing" -- is something you're either doing or you're not.”  –Matt Bell In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about the importance of creative persistence and obsession (1:45); the importance of maintaining creative discipline and keeping concrete track of your progress (8:00); "swooper" versus "basher" writers, and approaches to revision (14:00); the importance of place to narrative, and its role in research (21:15); how point-of-view affects a narrative (30:00); the important of "inciting incidents" and other techniques of narrative structure (38:00); strategies for getting "unstuck" in a narrative (42:30); and counterintuitive strategies for revising a creative work (52:00). Novelist Matt Bell (@mdbell79) is the author of several books, including, most recently, Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts. Notable Links: National Novel Writing Month (creative writing event)

“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.”  –Marcia DeSanctis In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself (30:00). Marcia DeSanctis (marciadesanctis1) is a Contributing Writer for Travel + Leisure. Her 2022 essay collection is entitled A Hard Place to Leave: Stories from a Restless Life. Notable Links: Barbara Walters (American TV host) Muammar Gaddafi (Libyan revolutionary) The Millions (online literary magazine) Souvenir, book by Rolf Potts (book) Alexander Pushkin (Russian poet) Kievan Rus' (medieval state) Leningrad (former name

“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00). Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/. Notable Links: School of Travel (podcast) The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Paris Writing Workshops World Domination Summit (event) Ryan Holiday (auth

“"Curiosity is contagious.”  –Sophia Bentaher In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophia talk about structuring journey around specific passions and obsessions, and her own decision to hitchhike Europe in search of pastry recipes (2:00); how your national or ethnic identity affects how you are seen as a traveler (13:00); Sophia's experiences as a woman hitchhiker in places like France, Switzerland and Italy, and how she documented her experiences on a spreadsheet (21:00); how the quest for pastry transformed the journey (38:00); how the travel experience led her to open a pastry business in Marrakesh (49:00); and how processes and stories are sometimes more essential than outcomes (57:30). Sophia Bentaher (@sophiabnthr) is a food traveler and writer, with a French-Moroccan background. Her obsession for food, specifically desserts, led her to drop a 9-5 lifestyle and go explore Europe to learn a traditional cake recipe in each country. Notable Links: The Wet and the Dry, by Laurence Osborne (book) Ame

“The pathless path is an embrace of uncertainty and discomfort. It’s a call to adventure in a world that tells us to conform.”  –Paul Millerd In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about American ideas of success, what these ideas mean, and how certain kinds of success don't improve one's life-path (1:30); how Paul used travel and overseas living to reinvent his relationship to time and help put himself on the pathless path (16:30); how we instinctively sense when we're on a wrong path, and what to do when we feel this way (30:00); and Paul's ten principles for embracing the pathless path (40:00). Paul Millerd (@p_millerd) is a strategy consultant, and the author of The Pathless Path: Imagining a New Story for Work and Life. Notable Links: Wu wei (Taoist concept of inaction) Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist) Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) Jerry Colonna (financier) Seth Godin (author) Tim Ferriss (author and podcaster) Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge) Johann

“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.”  –Jonathan Reisman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00). Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor's Journey Through the Hidden Wond

“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.”  –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an "adventurer" is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one's audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00). Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer. Notable Links: Bi

“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.”  –Colleen Kinder In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf's memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it's like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00). Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us. Colleen's ma

“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it's like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one's own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30). Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of "The A.T. With You & Me," a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors) The World Beneath

“My pandemic essay was so badly received; I got massively dragged on Twitter for it, practically canceled. And then it ended up in Best American Travel Writing.”  –Meghan Daum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Meghan discuss what it means to be called "the voice of a generation" (4:00); why Meghan moved to Nebraska early in her career, and what it's like to live and create in the provinces versus the metropole (9:20); the difficulty of continuing to make a living as a creative person, and mid-life career reinvention (16:00); Meghan's essay about moving to rural Virginia during the pandemic, how it was poorly received, and her anxieties about living as a "geoarbitrage" outsider (22:30); Meghan's career pivot into commenting on the culture wars, and how social media algorithms made this cultural rift more of an issue (35:00); and Rolf's concerns that the politicization and performative certainty of social discourse will make young people less open to the vulnerabilities and uncertainties of travel (44:45).

“We don't have a lot of time on this earth. When you get to my age you've got to use it wisely. The thing I object to most is people wasting my time.”  – Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar,  The Tao of Travel, and  On the Plain of Snakes. Notable Links: Sinclair Lewis (writer) William Faulkner (writer) Jorge Luis Borges (writer) Gabriel García Márquez (writer) Magical Realism (style of fiction) James Joyce (writer) Aldous Huxley (writer) Jack Kerouac (writer) Rebecca West (writer) Harriet Doer (writer) Leonora Carrington (artist) The Treasure of the Si

“Calculate what you spend on a daily basis at home for all your living expenses, cut that in half, and you’ll have a daily budget that can take you around the world indefinitely.”  –Tim Leffel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00). Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at devi

"I realized that Justin Alexander was the latest person to disappear in a long history of travelers disappearing in India's Parvati Valley. It's a dark aspect of this really beautiful place." – Harley Rustad In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Harley discuss how Harley learned of Justin Alexander's story, why he chose to report it, and what makes travel to India unique (2:30); who Justin Alexander was, and what life events and desires led to him being a world traveler and social-media persona (8:00); what makes India's Parvati Valley unique as a mountainous place where backpackers sometimes disappear, and how "India Syndrome" affects travelers (30:00); Justin's decision to live in a cave in the Parvati Valley under the influence of a local sadhu (40:00); Justin's August 2016 Facebook message to Rolf, the timeline of his life before his disappearance (47:30); speculations on what became of Justin after he was seen for the last time, and what his legacy is (57:00). Harley Rustad (@hmrustad) is the author of