Renovatio: The Podcast

Who is better placed to say what Islam is: the academic from the “outside” or the practitioner from “within”? In this episode of the Renovatio podcast, Ubaydullah Evans interviews Caner Dagli, a scholar of Islamic Studies, to explore the surprisingly elusive answer to the question: “Who gets to define Islam?” As an academic, Dagli critiques the approach the academy has historically taken in defining Islam within certain predetermined frameworks. They explore the tension among scholars in their attempts to define Islam, the tug between whether to hold the practice of Muslim laity or the pronouncements of Muslim scholars with greater authority, and the tension between unity and diversity in the practice and belief of Muslims worldwide. We encourage you to read Caner Dagli’s article, “Islam as One Thing, Anything, or Nothing: What the Western Academy Gets Wrong.”

Asma Afsaruddin argues that jihad (martial engagement) as articulated in the Qur’an and by numerous classical Muslim scholars is primarily defensive in nature. The crux of her argument relies on relevant verses from the Qur’an and prominent Sunni exegetes such as Ibn Abbas, Mujahib ibn Jabbar, and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi. These commentators, writes Asfaruddin, argue that the Qur’an only authorizes Muslims to retaliate against those who aggress upon them. In conversation with Ubaydullah Evans, Asma Afsaruddin draws out the major arguments of her recent article Justice, Nonaggression, and Military Ethics in Islam.

Modern science identifies the self with the brain, but this materialist conception of the self is wholly insufficient. 

Lenn E. Goodman, an expert on Jewish and Islamic metaphysics, joins Esme Partridge to discuss the philosophical heritage of AI (artificial intelligence)—which he locates in the medieval and renaissance study of alchemy, which ultimately sought to create man from matter—and the implications of our rapid embrace of AI.

"One thing that is true of [the Great Books] list is that you cannot… think that it is a unified, monolithic view of the truth. Hobbes and Machiavelli disagree vehemently with Plato, right? There's some continuity there, but Aquinas does not agree with David Hume, who is an atheist. So, at a minimum, an honest reading of that tradition is an introduction not to a monolithic unified conception of what the truth is, but to a series of important debates."—Thomas HibbsPhilosopher Thomas Hibbs and host Ubaydullah Evans explore one of the most repeated objections to the universal benefits of a liberal arts education.Recommended Read: “The Egalitarian Objection to Liberal Education,” Thomas Hibbs, Renovatio

"The empirical in the traditional notion of reason is only one component in the uncovering of our knowledge. But knowledge really involves uncovering the intelligible object. So what that means is the intelligible object is not there in the empirical world—that actually means transcending the empirical world to make contact with this intelligible essence."Zaytuna lecturer Hasan Spiker identifies the true ground of objectivity in a conversation with Esme Partridge. 

“If your ultimate concern is yourself, if you have spent your life building a monument to yourself, then in biblical terms, that’s idolatry. I think we live in an idolatrous society…  I think it is extremely difficult for people to achieve a moral life without a community.”Chris Hedges speaks to Renovatio editor Safir Ahmed about what fuels our contemporary narcissism and prevents us fulfilling our moral obligations to our selves and to society. Recommended Read: “How the Cult of the Self Undermines the Rule of Law,” Chris Hedges, Renovatio

In this podcast, Muhammad U. Faruque speaks with Esme Partridge on his recently published book, Sculpting the Self: Islam, Selfhood, and Human Flourishing, which examine notions of selfhood and subjectivity before and in the modern period. Muhammad U. Faruque is Inayat Malik Assistant Professor at the University of Cincinnati. Esmé L. K. Partridge is a writer on Islamic thought and the dynamics between tradition and modernity in a secular age.

In a thought-provoking exchange, Rushain Abbasi, a scholar of Islamic thought, and Omar Qureshi, provost of Zaytuna College, present their ideas of why shirk retains theological utility for Muslims today because the concept goes far beyond idols of stone. Ubaydullah Evans facilitates the conversation. Rushain Abbasi is a Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow in the Humanities and Lecturer in the Department of Religious Studies at Stanford University. Omar Qureshi is provost of Zaytuna College and a scholar of educational philosophy, ethics, theology, and Islamic law, Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with the Ta’leef Collective.

Is there a way to reconcile modern intuitions about egalitarianism with historical relations based on hierarchy? Scholars Mohammad Fadel and Lawrence Jannuzzi discuss the contours of equality, power, and hierarchy from both an Islamic legal and contemporary political perspective. Mohammad Fadel is a professor of law at the University of Toronto. Lawrence Jannuzzi is a scholar of medieval history and political theory and a professor at Zaytuna College.

Stephen A. Gregg, a twice contributor to the journal speaks with Asad Tarsin about the inspiration behind his Renovatio essay, “The Only Real Solitude.” Stephen A. Gregg is a monk of the Cistercian Abbey of Our Lady of Dallas, in Texas. Joshua Lee Harris specializes in the philosophy of Saint Thomas Aquinas.

What better topic for discussion than beauty, muses Oludamini Ogunnaike, a regular contributor to Renovatio and a scholar of Islam in north and west Africa. Beauty is inseparable from truth, goodness, and justice, yet reference to it is missing from many of our most important discussions on those matters. The neglect of beauty has been detrimental to communities everywhere, notes Ogunnaike; it’s often seen as superfluous, compartmentalized from other values, or reserved for the elite when, in fact, beauty remains an existential need for every human being. Ubaydullah Evans engages with Ogunnaike on the quiddity of beauty, beauty as it relates to a fuller understanding of God, and the correlation between beauty and spiritual maturity. Oludamini Ogunnaike is assistant professor of African religious thought at the University of Virginia.Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with the Ta’leef Collective.For show notes, visit our website:

Asad Tarsin, author of Being Muslim: A Practical Guide, speaks with Joshua Lee Harris, a specialist on the work of Thomas Aquinas, on his article for Renovatio, “The Human Arts of Graceful Giving and Grateful Receiving.” In their conversation, Harris explains how his desire to understand gratitude grew from wanting to inculcate gratefulness in his own life and also from encountering people who affirmed gratitude despite facing extreme adversity. This experience, as well as his philosophical and theological exploration of the topic, led him to approach being grateful not only as an emotion, but as a matter of cognition and attentiveness to life. He also discusses how the Roman philosopher Seneca underscores the intention of the giver as an important consideration that distinguishes generosity and gratitude from other social interactions. Tarsin and Harris exchange ideas about humility as a prerequisite for true gratefulness, Imam al-Ghazālī’s three components of gratitude, and what evolution can’t explain abou

In this episode, scholars Caner Dagli and Andrew March discuss theories of democracy and their relationship to modern Islamic thought, how modern Muslims grapple with democracy’s promise as well as its baggage, and whether metaphysics can (or should) be untangled from politics. (While March raises Tunisia as an example of a succeeding Muslim democracy, please note that this podcast was recorded before the suspension of parliament and the dismissal of the prime minister.)

The mere act of writing for one’s self tends to reveal the fact that each one of us contains multitudes. When we write in our diaries or journals, we employ rhetorical devices even though our audience is within us. Scott Crider and Sarah Barnette—both are teachers and scholars committed to the craft of writing—discuss how conversing with one’s self through writing treats the self like the other in a useful way, giving us liberal room to persuade or represent ourselves. The end result, hopefully, is that one is transformed through the openness of the experience, having escaped from conflict or confusion into clarity. Crider and Barnette also speak about practical matters: about how to start the practice of writing, how to make use of originality, and how to lean on the good writing of others. Sarah Barnette is a scholar of English literature with an interest in Victorian literary ethics. Scott F. Crider is a professor of English at the University of Dallas, Constantin College of Liberal Arts.

Asma T. Uddin litigated issues of religious liberty for years, but it wasn’t until Burwell v. Hobby Lobby—the US Supreme Court case about whether the Affordable Care Act required Christian owners of a private company to offer contraception as part of their employee health coverage—that she felt thrust into an arena where religious freedom was understood through a stark political lens. In this episode, Caner K. Dagli, professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross, speaks with Uddin on the path she sees for Muslims to effect real change for themselves without succumbing to tribalism and explores her views on the increasingly antiquated and often constricting allegiances of left and right. They discuss strategic paths to change that Muslims can employ that recognize the common humanity of all Americans and develop a more dynamic engagement with the political system.  Caner K. Dagli specializes in Qur’anic studies, interfaith dialogue, and philosophy. He is an associate professor of religious studie

What kind of equality could be universal? A scan of history shows that our modern ideal of equality is more fiction than fact. In this episode, Ubaydullah Evans interviews the historian Juan Cole on his forthcoming article for Renovatio that addresses the issue of equality by examining the text and context of the Qur’an. The two discuss how equality is one of the great unquestioned values of our time, one that has always existed as an area of great concern throughout history. They talk about the Qur’an’s explicit characterization of diversity as a manifestation of God’s creative power, an affront to the dangerous human tendency to view difference as an aberration from the norm. They exchange ideas about the Qur’anic focus on the virtue of an individual and, in doing so, highlight what made for a radical notion during the time of the Arab antiquity—that a person’s worth is not tied to her group identity but rather exists as a bestowal from God. Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learn

Sarah Barnette, a scholar of Victorian literature, speaks with Fr. Francisco Nahoe on great books and the pleasure of reading. The scholar of Victorian literature Sarah Barnette asks as Fr. Francisco Nahoe, who specializes in the earlier Renaissance period, what might be missing in her understanding of Victorian texts, without a fuller grasp of the works that helped to birth to that era. The two discuss what makes great books great, the joy of reading, and the “unruly and intimidating” lineage of great literature.  Sarah Barnette, a frequent contributor to Renovatio, completed her PhD in English literature at the University of Oxford in 2017. Francisco Nahoe, who teaches courses in the trivium and politics at Zaytuna College, is a Roman Catholic priest and Franciscan friar.

In the Netherlands, the political climate was toxic with anti-Islam bigotry when Joram van Klaveren made a name for himself as a prominent and ambitious politician. He helped to lead the Party for Freedom, with its central platform hostile to Islam and Muslims in the Netherlands. When he set out to write a book that would ground his rhetoric against Islam, he would discover that he neither knew much about Islam nor was convinced of the basic tenets of Christianity, the religion he was fighting for. As Joram pored over books to inform his own, his intentions changed from a close-minded diatribe to a man in search of God and in search of meaning. Joram van Klaveren is a former far-right Dutch politician. In the midst of writing an anti-Islam book, he became a Muslim and rededicated his book, which he would eventually title Apostate, to his search for God and subsequent conversion to Islam. Ubaydullah Evans is the scholar-in-residence of the American Learning Institute for Muslims (ALIM) and an instructor with t